Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Who's going to win? [Archive]

JAMESTALKALOT

13-11-2006, 09:35 AM

i dont care,these new formats piss me off,i have only just got my dvd collection complete n where i want it and now i may have 2 start all over again,no way,its taken about 7yrs 4 most of what i want 2 come out on dvd and im still waiting 4 some things,mainly US tv series and the odd se's,it will take absolutely yonks b 4 it all comes out again in another format,alot may not come out again.i've heard that u can play old dvds on the new formats,but no definate yes 4 either.frankly i dont want either,theres no need,just like the new games generation,2 soon. :mad: :(

No offence mate, but is there any chance you could use English to say what you have to say? This isn't a mobile phone, so there's no need to type like you're using one is there?

I'm 32 and really find it hard to read that ‘phone speak’ if it's dragged out over a big paragraph.

Cheers M8 ;) :D

Anne

13-11-2006, 10:34 AM

The new players are indeed backwards compatible, so all of your DVDs will work just fine with them.

jason007

13-11-2006, 10:59 PM

The new players are indeed backwards compatible, so all of your DVDs will work just fine with them.

is that guaranteed????

Hubbs

14-11-2006, 05:22 AM

sorry matey,it just makes things go abit faster when i'm typing,forgive me if i slip here n there,point taken onboard.whats your opinion on my opinion :rolleyes:

Hubbs

14-11-2006, 05:27 AM

yeah,where's the guarantee :( its gonna take hard evidence and good film catalogs to make me give up my dvd player.from what i've heard about these film companies splitting between each format makes the whole thing a joke,i have to choose which format by which films it has on their catalog ha! :mad: not a chance,i've been doing that with games consoles all my life,it sucks.another nail in the next gen coffin.

JAMESTALKALOT

14-11-2006, 08:00 PM

sorry matey,it just makes things go abit faster when i'm typing,forgive me if i slip here n there,point taken onboard.whats your opinion on my opinion :rolleyes:

I'm with you mate. It's too soon. I'm still having fun collecting movies on DVD and they have never been cheaper.

I've thought long and hard about getting HD dvd (buying the 360 HD drive as it's so cheap) and after many weeks of talking about it and thinking about it, I'm not going to bother at the moment. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy DVD a good while longer and let them get their act together. I love HD gaming at the moment but I don't think I'm ready to go for HD movies.

My HD TV gets plenty of use without the need to go HD with movies.

Yep..My mind is made up. I'm going to wait as long as I can to go HD with movies, and I'm going to keep buying super cheap DVDs as long as they keep having all the same content on them.

So who will win? To tell the truth I really don't care for the time being. Now what's next to buy on my DVD wishlist? :D

StuartBannerman

14-11-2006, 08:39 PM

I think im pretty much with James on this one.
I couldnt care less about HD, couldnt care less about the increased picture quality (i still watch the odd film on VHS with inferior quality and it doesnt make it a bad movie) And i couldnt care less about them being able to fit 5 times more on a DVD or whatever this weeks capacity number is.
Theres a new Virgin Megastore near me and im going DVD shopping!! Blu-Ray smoo-ray

jason007

14-11-2006, 10:26 PM

i agree with james and stu, i dont really care about hd or blu-ray, the only reason i started DvDs is cos they were subtitled (well most of them are anyway) il let them battle it out then wait for the players to come down in price then i might join them :D

Skywalker

15-11-2006, 07:51 AM

Rumour has it that there have been backward compatibility issues with the PS3, I’m not sure if this only relates to games i.e. PS1 & 2 or original DVD’s. Either way this is going to be a big dent in Sony’s campaign for dominance in the market.

TheThirdLeg

15-11-2006, 04:24 PM

I do care for HD. for me it is all about picture quality as imo extras for dvd's have hit a wall and its just the same old thing churned out. The main reason i couldnt wait to go to dvd from vhs in the first place was for better picture and sound quality. I have had a fair bit of experience with HD on tv and some with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and they are a pleasure to behold. Even though i cant wait for us all to turn HD i wont be taking up a side in the HD-DVD v Blu-Ray war as it could end up costing a fortune. Though as the next gen players come down in price this will get harder and harder to resist (it already is now!).

HD is a natural progression that the rest of the world has already bought into. As time goes on and more and more people buy HD tv's it will become more of an issue but this is going to take some time. The HD services Sky are presently offering will be a factor because as the TV becomes more and more HD, people will want the films they watch to be HD. Basically the more we get exposed to HD tv the more we will want HD players. We are way behind the U.S. because of the lack of HD TV available but it will take off i'm sure of it. As for what format will win? Even us on this forum are split down the middle in our poll so what hope of a clear winner appearing anytime soon? Not much i doubt.

Does anybody think it is possible for both formats to survive? It works with games consoles, why not DVD players. If all films were available on both formats i think it could be possible.

I will be in the U.S. in the next couple of weeks and a guy i work with over there has got a PS3 at launch so i cant wait to have a go on that. I have already seen Blu-Ray in action so i'll be very interested to see what the film playback is like on the PS3.

jason007

15-11-2006, 06:43 PM

but iv heard that some studios will only using one format so if thats true and both take off then we will all have to own 2 players and im not gonna do that :mad:

Hubbs

16-11-2006, 05:42 AM

thats what i said and pointed out a few mails back,the whole thing is ridiculous,how can you release some films on one format and some on another,what the movie companies are thinkin i don't know.apart from the fact that it will take another 6-7 years before all the dvds available now are re-released on true blueray or HD,whats the point of having HD players if your collection,if you can play them,are all old dvd format with no HD look,super next gen technology with mostly old gen merchandise eg.playing old xbox games on an xbox 360 :confused: waste of time.the film companies should release their movies on both formats,they are taking us for mugs,oops i cant but my fav film or the lastest blockbuster because its only available on the 'other' format :confused: :mad:

StuartBannerman

16-11-2006, 12:40 PM

Backwards Compatible Players and one single new format is the only way to go. And no way will two formats live side by side, one will win and fast. Theres too much money in retail releases to waste time on format wars.
I very much doubt this new format (whichever one wins) will cause everyone to rush out and upgrade all their DVD collections. Im definately not planning on doing that. I spent too much money on DVDs for that

jason007

16-11-2006, 10:26 PM

just read in STUFF mag that panasonic and sony will launch hybrid players that play both formats and normal DvD in 2007 so i was wrong again :mad: why are they doing this?

Dave

17-11-2006, 04:12 PM

400,000 PS3s on sale today in the US. That's a lot of Blu-Ray players installed in one day.

The glitches with backwards compatibility are apparently with some PS1 games.

Am I beginning to sound like a fan boy?

Hubbs

20-11-2006, 05:06 AM

yes u are sounding like a fanboy :p and as for the three in one dvd players(blue,hd,reg dvd)that sounds bloody expensive to me,especially with the usual sony prices(add on another couple hundred quid for the sony name)its a good answer but the different format companies won't like it,and its still a whole lot of mess,one player and three different dvd formats on the go.swayed i am not :confused:

Hubbs

26-11-2006, 02:11 AM

jason007

27-11-2006, 11:19 AM

latest issue 85,u are reviewing hd n blueray releases now,this is gonna sound harsh but i reckon thats a waste of space :( further more i have noticed that all releases have either the same or no extras on them :mad: what the hell????there is no way on this green earth am i getting next gen if they are no different 2 the current releases,apart fr sound n picture,which does not sway me one bit.complete rip off springs to mind,like these re-releases of movies at the mo with the directors,mothers,best mate at bingo version with 5min extra footage,money sucking vampires :mad: :mad:

he's getting good at this, once again i agree with him, it is a total rip off, if they want to make these new hd/blu work shouldnt they be using all the so called space on the discs for either more (better) extras or music soundtracks or even bloody games (some people like them) to tempt us over to the dark side!!!

Anne

27-11-2006, 02:18 PM

just read in STUFF mag that panasonic and sony will launch hybrid players that play both formats and normal DvD in 2007 so i was wrong again :mad: why are they doing this?

As far as hybrid players go, I'll believe it when I see it and not before. Enough companies have already scrapped plans for hybrids that I'm highly cynical about the whole thing.

jason007

27-11-2006, 07:00 PM

As far as hybrid players go, I'll believe it when I see it and not before. Enough companies have already scrapped plans for hybrids that I'm highly cynical about the whole thing.

i wish it will all go away like its a bad dream or something, ive spent alot of hard earned money on my DvD collection which is my pride and joy (after my son) and they are taking the piss (pardon my french)

Hubbs

29-11-2006, 03:49 AM

yeah,me n 007 are kicking ass here alright,i too have spend lotsa money on my collection which as i have said before is just about complete,for all that 2 come out in hd or blueray all over again,my god we r talkin eons here.as i have said before,again,there's no point owning next gen players if all yr precious collection is old gen,its a waste of time n money on yr part as yr not benefitting from the so called next gen improvements.to benefit,all your dvds would have to be hd or blueray,and some of the stuff i have is quite(in this country) unique r1 stuff,cant see it coming out again in a hurry,took long enough for a dvd release :(

and another thing :p in this months monthly i also noticed that what little,none or exact same extras these next gen discs have are all,wait for it,in REGULAR format,not next gen hd,blueray magic,so the film is wonderful n out of this world,the extras are,not to put a finer point on it,crap....old gen look,which compared to hd,blueray(apparantley) is basically crap.hold me back guys..im gonna spend thousands right now.

Mr Franco

30-07-2007, 04:53 PM

So has anyone actually jumped on the HD boat yet?

PS3? The Toshiba players?

What's everybody got and what's recomended? Thinjking of getting a PS3 but still not 100% sure.

Hubbs

30-07-2007, 10:04 PM

well u must know what i think if u have read all this hehehe

playstation 3? dont bother..no games and the blueray drive is'nt gonna be as good as an independant player,i dont care what people say..i love movies,enough to get a good dvd player,i would NEVER play movies through a games console,crap quality,its a games console not a dvd player.get an xbox 360,miles better,for games anyway...oh and no i dont have one so im not being bias.

anyway..i still have my dvd's,my collection of what i want is complete and its taken about 5yrs to do so,im happy with it.good sound,good pic quality..i have no need for a huge HDtv with new blue or HD dvd player,i dont care how good the sound n pic is,is paying out all that really worth slightly better sound n pic quality,and lets be honest its not gonna be vastly different,dvd is pretty darn good i reckon,its just money down the drain.

and lastly...blue n HD have nothing extra on their disc's over dvd,1 or 2 things here n there but no way near enough to change my mind,dvd's are still crammed with everything u will ever need in my opinion.it will take ages for it all to come out all over again,and what has come out does'nt even have the same extras as their dvd counterpart :eek: the only bonus they have is u can fit more stuff on the disc.....er...great,so instead of having maybe a dvd with 1disc for the film and 2 for extras,with blue n HD it will all be on the 1 disc,both sides.now be honest..is that really gonna change yr mind?

Mr Franco

31-07-2007, 09:24 AM

Hmmm, seems like waiting for a year or two may well be the way to go. I've seen a few films on Blu-Ray and HD_DVD, and while they have looked great, I don't think it's worth forking out 15,000 quid plus for a kit that's decent enough to see a noticeable difference.

Actually have an Xbox 360, though haven't purchased the HD-DVD player add-on. Not yet anyway.

Honkytonk

06-08-2007, 11:48 AM

Watched Stranger Than Fiction on PS3 and the quality was excellent. Also watched some HD-DVDs on the Xbox add-on and it wasn't great. Not worth the money in my opinion, go for the PS3 when there's some more games out for it (oh yeah, it also now upscales the quality of ordinary dvds).

Hubbs

19-02-2008, 12:36 PM

HD DVD IS DEAD......BLUERAY WINS.
but im still not getting blueray

Mr Franco

05-03-2008, 09:47 AM

Why aren't you getting Blu-rays Hubbs? Granted, it's not that much of a dramatic improvement on some discs, but the likes of Pan's Labyrinth is amazing in H-def. Surely a movie fan wants to see their fav movies in the best way possible? :D

I-Killed-Kenny

05-03-2008, 09:53 AM

Thank goodness for that. I was getting fed up with the format war. Think I might save up and get myself a PS3 now, as although I'm not a huge gamer, I enjoy playing on occassion, and it's about the same price as a standalone Blu-ray player. Can't understand how the PS3 can play Blu-rays and do so much more, yet it's cheaper than most of the players that only play the discs.

Hubbs

05-03-2008, 03:34 PM

i would have to get a new tv and player....AND new copyies of films again....no thanks ahaha
dvd is good enough.there is just no need.

Honkytonk

05-03-2008, 04:54 PM

Best order your PS3 now if you want one for christmas

Tim Isaac

07-03-2008, 01:21 PM

One of the good things about the PS3 (or indeed most standalone Blu-ray players) is that there isn't really the need to get all your fave films again, as it'll upscale any DVD it plays to whatever level of HD your screen can handle. While it's not a true HD picture, it's good enough for all but the most pernickety film fan, and certainly makes a big difference on screens 42" and up. Then you can stick with the DVDs you've got, and get some Blu-rays of great new stuff, which it has to be said, can look stunning at 1080p.

Of course, getting the money to buy the screen and the PS3 is a different matter.

Hubbs

07-03-2008, 10:32 PM

exactly haha i dont really have the room for a big screen anyway...its not just the screen..you've got the stand as well which can take up alot of space.

Tyler

11-04-2008, 11:22 PM

Only an idiot (unfortunately, I’m one!) would buy a Blu-ray player at this stage of the format’s development… or maybe someone who has enough dosh to treat today’s players as disposable items (take a bow Michael Bay & co.). All players available to date conform to profile 1.0, which has already been superseded by profile 1.1. Profile 1.1 players are only just beginning to appear on the market, but profile 2.0 is already in the pipeline.

Unfortunately, upgrades are not available for standalone players. The only Blu-ray device which is capable of being upgraded is… the PS3! So the only way of ensuring full compatibility with the latest Blu-ray Disc releases is to buy a PS3, Clever Sony! Of course, not everyone wants an ugly PS3 sitting beneath their sleek new flat panel TV! But don’t waste your money, as I did, on an expensive standalone Blu-ray player, until the format has been finalised.

Hubbs

12-04-2008, 02:40 AM

i knew it haha waste of time.

sorry about yr probs though matey..that sucks.just stick to dvds.

jbluitt

12-04-2008, 11:03 AM

Good advice from Tyler. Give Blu-ray a wide berth until its all been sorted out.

At long last, Blu-ray Disc titles are beginning to deliver on their promise, but I’m not able to enjoy them. I’m one very unhappy owner of a Sony BDP-S500 Blu-ray player. It cost the best part of a grand, is only a few months old and it is already obsolete! It cannot be upgraded, Sony won’t replace it and they won’t even offer a token trade-in deal. Not so clever Sony! It seems that they are really only interested in selling more PS3’s. The BDP-S500 is a distinctly average DVD performer, and it’s upscaling ability is nowhere near as good as some other machines I’ve seen. To make matters worse, it won’t even play my SACD discs. What a waste of money! I tried selling it on eBay, but I couldn’t even flog it for 100 quid!

If you want to buy into Blu-ray, the PS3 is the only sensible game in town at present. And with reports of increasing Blu-ray player prices, it looks like staying that way for some time. If things don’t change soon, maybe DVD Monthly will have to change it’s name to PS3 Monthly!

Tyler

12-04-2008, 11:34 AM

Thank you for your sympathy Hubbs.

Sorry to hear that we share the same misfortune jbluitt. I think we've been the victims of some very clever marketing.

Blu-ray is a triumph of style over substance. I now wish I'd have given HD-DVD my support! It looks as though Blu-ray might become a PS3 only format - just like UMD for the PSP.

I'm sure that the general public are unaware of what all this profile malarky is all about. Perhaps DVD Monthly will consider making some editorial comment to warn other readers of the possible pitfalls.

Hubbs

13-04-2008, 03:08 AM

blu ray is still very below average for me..apart from the player probs,tv probs and lack of good films...u dont even get decent extras on em.not as good as dvds...so whats the point of all that extra space???
the quality isnt even top notch on some older films cos they werent meant to be viewed like that,so they can never really be seen much better than dvd quality.unless u wanna see all the mistakes and joins in the sets where they made em haha cos blu ray highlights these better than the actual film.

jbluitt

15-04-2008, 01:28 PM

Now I’m feeling really sick!

A friend has just bought a Toshiba HD EP35 player at a bargain basement price. Why did he apparently waste his money on a player for a now defunct format? Well, it seems that several reviews had praised the Tosh as much for it’s performance with standard DVD’s as with HD-DVD’s. The Tosh is reported to be one of the best up-scalers in the business, at any price. So, my friend thought that he could pick up a top flight player for his growing DVD collection for very little outlay. He also managed to pick up a handful of HD-DVD titles for a song.

We thought it might be interesting to do a side by side comparison of his new player against my Sony BDP-S500 Blu-ray player. So we hooked both machines up to his new 50 inch Pioneer plasma screen. The HD-DVD titles looked incredible, and Transformers, in particular, looked better than anything I could offer on Blu-ray! However, due to the limited range of titles available to us, we were unable to do a like for like comparison with the same movie.

We then viewed some standard DVD’s up-scaled by the Tosh. The results were astonishing, with the image never appearing less that impressive. But the real surprise was that some DVD titles (Pirates 3, Beowulf, Spiderman 2 and 3:10 to Yuma) subjectively looked more convincing than their Blu-ray counterparts!

Blu-ray boasts 5 times the resolution of DVD, but it seems that this doesn’t necessarily guarantee better pictures. I’m at a loss to explain this. I wondered if my BDP-S500 was a rogue player, but I’ve had it checked out at my local Sony Centre, and they say that it is “performing within normal parameters“. So it appears that a well coded DVD can actually look better than an average Blu-ray Disc. If anyone has a better explanation please let me know.

If, despite reading this, anyone still has the Blu-mist in their eyes and would like to make me an offer for my BDP-S500, I will gladly throw in my collection of a dozen or so Blu-ray discs for free!

Me? I’m off to get my hands on a Toshiba HD EP35 whilst they’re still available. And I’ll also be saving my money for one of those fantastic Pioneer plasma screens!

Tim Isaac

15-04-2008, 07:15 PM

We have to a certain extent returned to the early days of DVD, when there could be big differences in performance between players, and also in the quality of the actual discs. Things have all reached a pretty good standard with DVD now, but it took a while to get there.

Likewise, changes in hardware protocols meant not all early DVDs played on all players.

However, while the whole Profile thing is incredibly frustrating for early adopters of Blu-ray, you should still be able to play profile 1.1 discs on a profile 1.0 player, you just won't have all the advanced PIP functions etc. It's also been suggested more players will have the ability to upgrade from profile 1.1 to 2.0 than from 1.0 to 1.1, particularly as many will already have the Internet connection which is optional on 1.1 but compulsory for 2.0 (moving from 1.0 to 1.1 involves adding secondary audio and video decoders, local storage capabilty and a virtual file system, so at the moment it is technically a far bigger deal on the hardware side than going from 1.0 to 1.1 than from 1.1 to 2.0).

Ultimately though, you are still more futureproofed with a PS3 than anything else around at the moment. There may be players out there that offer slightly better picture quality, but for the price (and the fact it's now added DTS-HD support), the PS3 is a pretty good bet.

Profile 2.0 is currently meant to be the end point, so once 2.0 players are available (the PS3 is already 2.0 compatible), you should be safe on the profiles front and things will settle down.

As for upscaling DVDs. It is true that a good upscaler can make DVDs look superb on a hi-def screen, and there are quite a few discs out there where you might as well stick with the DVD, as the HD version doesn't look any better, but with others you certainly do notice. Hopefully, as with DVD, at Blu-ray authors get more used to the technology and the codecs used, we should see quality stabilise (although it is true it's tough with some older films, as without a complete restoration, many movies will never have the clarity new films will on Blu-ray)

Unfortunately all of this is a lot more complicated than we've got used to with DVD in the past few years and to a certain extent HD DVD was simpler, but it should all be getting a lot easier with Blu-ray in the coming months.

And of course you've always got DVD Monthly to help you, especially as from next month we're changing things to make it much easier to navigate your way through the HD minefield month by month. So keep an eye out.

jbluitt

15-04-2008, 10:45 PM

I take your point Tim, and it's comforting to know that DVD Monthly is there to guide us through the HD minefield.

However, the average consumer doesn't want any hastle. We just want to buy a disc, slap it in our player and know that we can enjoy whatever content is listed on the box. And of course we want to be able to take a minimum standard of quality for granted.

It's not really the same as with the early days of DVD. Sure, DVD had it's teething problems, but I don't think that DVD players were ever deliberately put onto the market with calculated obsolescence. There is also the matter of timescale - Here, we're talking about a player which is only just 5 months old, and indeed is still being sold as a current model!

But the real frustrating thing is that the PS3 is upgardeable. And (as I understand it) HD-DVD players were also designed to be upgradeable. So why not the expensive stand-alone Blu-ray players?

Surely it's not too much to expect the industry to keep faith with early adopters who put their trust in the manufacturers, and helped them to establish the format?

Hubbs

16-04-2008, 03:02 AM

to be honest i dont really understand all this 'profile' crap thats being thrown about.why cant blu ray just be like dvd and play films on a player?whats all these 1.0,2.0 profiles????
its totally bizaare and not needed.i agree with bluitt...u just wanna put yr film in yr player and watch with good quality.....nowadays with all these different hi def screens and player profiles and the fact that only modern films look anygood..its just insane.

i reckon all my dvd collection wouldnt be anygood in HD cos there're all older movies which simply werent made for it and as a result wont look any better.and as i have said before..there's very little that i buy nowadays cos its all rubbish...transformers,spiderman etc... please :confused: are these suppose to be good?

a player that upscales yr dvd's sounds much better..lets have that....why the need for a whole new gen...which we dont need.

Tim Isaac

16-04-2008, 12:44 PM

Okay, these are the main differences between the profiles:

From profile 1.0 to 1.1 adds a compulsory local storage capability of 256mb, secondary video and audio decoders and inclusion of a virtual file system. All player released since last November have to have all this.

Profile 2.0 adds Internet capability and ups the minimum local storage to 1gb.

Basically 1.1 allows you access to picture in picture functions and some of BD more advanced possibilities for special features, and 2.0 gives you access to BD-Live, which is for web-enhanced content.

All early BD players should still play the main content of any Blu-ray disc, but won't have access to some of the advanced features such as PIP and BD-Live. Yes it's annoying, but that's what we have to live with. So old players won't really be obsolete, they'll just be annoyingly lacking in some features.

There's also Profile 3.0, but don't panic about that, as it's an audio only format.

It is also true that it's a lot more complicated than it ought to be at the moment, but it should be getting simpler now the format war is settled and the profiles are getting more standardised. And jbluitt, you're right, you'd hope the industry would keep faith with early adopters, but whenever have they? They're in it to make money, which is another unfortunate reality.

Although things were different in the early days of DVDs, there was a vaguely similar situation with players that couldn't handle hybrid DVD-Video/DVD-ROM discs, such as The Matrix. Most first generation players couldn't handle it, and nor could the cheaper players that were still on the market. With those, you couldn't play the discs at all if your player wasn't up to it. But it is true that when the first generation of DVD players came out, they weren't reckoning on compatibility issues a couple of years down the line.

And Hubbs, with older films it really is a case by case situation as to what they look like in HD. Some are astonishingly good, while others look pretty ropey.

Tyler

16-04-2008, 11:43 PM

Tim is right. If the source material is good enough then even old movies will look great in HD.

But then again, most of my DVD collection looks amazing when up-scaled, and I don't feel any inclination to replace my back catalogue with HD versions. Even when projected onto a 7 foot wide screen using my SIM2 projector, the results are very cinematic.

OK, so it's not true HD, but I the only instruments I use to judge the image quality are my eyes. And to be truthful I don't really see a great enough difference to justify the additional expense of purchasing Blu-ray versions.

Like jbluitt, I feel that I've been shat upon by the consumer electronics industry. Dealers were keen to promote the exciting new possibilities that would be forthcoming with Blu-ray... but they neglected to tell me that I would not be able to enjoy them with the very expensive piece of hardware that they were so eager to sell me!

Sony have now admited (in Home Cinema Choice magazine) that they were 'forced' to launch the Blu-ray format before it was finalised, in order to head off the challenge from HD-DVD. But HD-DVD got it right from the outset, and it's a great shame that it didn't get the studio support it deserved. Blu-ray won the HD format war because of the weight of big names behind it... and because of the PS3!

I certainly won't be wasting any more money on Blu-ray hardware (or software) until this mess is sorted out. For the time being, I'll be sticking with DVD, which I'm more than happy with, especially when it is upscaled.

But ike it or not, we will eventually be forced into accepting the new format, because market forces will drive us that way. Sony have already announced that they will be ceasing the production of DVD players to concentrate on Blu-ray devices, and I don't suppose it will be long before the other manufacturers follow suit. Ultimately, the consumer will not begiven any choice!

Don't misunderstand me, I think that HD will be very desirable once they get it right. But I just don't like the way the consumer is being steam-rollered into accepting a new format. And I detest the contempt with which early adopters have been treated! We really are casualties of the war!

Hubbs

17-04-2008, 05:07 AM

well..i aint changing :mad:
my dvd collection is complete and cool.its taken about 7yrs.there's no way half the stuff i have will come out again on blu ray...no way....married with children series 1-6 er....i doubt it...count duckula...alf the movie....forget it.these are rare releases that will probably be deleted like the robocop criterion..which i have.how can blu ray better that? (im sure u all have certain things that will never see the light of blu ray day again)

i have no need to buy bluray versions as dvd suits me fine and im not buying a new hi def tv and new player.

when dvd eventually dies i will stick with it..to hell with em....i have all the films and tv series i want and they are all pretty loaded with extras....there's nothing more that can be stuck on most films these days.blu ray will be the same stuff in different packaging and in hi def....BORING.and possibly with less extras than the original dvd counterpart.
how can u better the current aliens 2disc edition? apart from the pic quality? u just cant do anymore...hence no reason to change,and i wont.

there just isnt enough change to offer the swap over.

recent example...blade runner 5disc...
no other version will come close or offer anymore im sure.there cant be anymore to see and there's nothing new to do...the limit has been reached with home entertainment extras im afraid.pic quality upgrading should be available to those who want it and thats all..not force everyone into it.

Tim Isaac

17-04-2008, 10:51 AM

The other thing to remember though is that you won't have to replace your DVDs, as they'll still play on a Blu-ray player.

I think we'll find that in the next few years it won't so much be forcing people to adopt Blu-ray, but a natural evolution. Player prices will drop, so it'll become just as sensible to buy a Blu-ray player if you need one, as it is to buy a DVD player.

Likewise with product, it'll be quite a while before Blu-ray overtakes DVD in sales, and distributors will keep bringing out DVDs while it remains profitable to do so, and that's going to be for a long while yet.

They may have cocked certain things up with the launch of the format, but we should now be going into a period where it is about choice.

Hubbs

17-04-2008, 01:05 PM

yeah but eventually i will still have to get a new player and better tv to accompany it otherwise getting the new blu ray player will be pointless.no point having hi def player without hi def tv.
and thats gonna be abit.

jbluitt

18-04-2008, 11:29 AM

Having had my fingers burnt, by jumping on the Blu-ray bandwagon too early, I'll now be sticking with DVD until I'm forced to change! In many cases, the difference really isn't great enough to bother me.

So, Sony now admit that they launched Blu-ray whilst it was still incomplete to see off the challenge from HD-DVD. Victory at all costs and sod the consumer! I think that this disregard for the buying public is contemptible. And I find little comfort in the fact that Profile 3 will be an audio only format. It now becomes clear why Sony have dropped SACD support from it's Blu-ray players. Another kick in the teeth for the consumer!

I'm not a Luddite. I normally embrace new technology (although I must admit it's moving a little too fast for my wallet). But given the speed of developments, I do feel that backwards compatibility with earlier formats is very important. But it seems that Sony are not concerned about compatibility, even with successful formats. My nephews tell me that the PS3 will not run several of their PS2 games.

So I'll bide my time and see how things develop. But one thing I can say for sure - When the time comes, I definitely will not be buying Sony again!

We all love DVD, which is why we buy DVD Monthly. I hope that the magazine will continue to focus mainly on DVD whilst the format remains popular - although I do understand the need to give coverage to emerging formats.

And finally, a request: We seem to take DVD quality for granted nowadays, but please could reviewers give some indication of the image quality, especially in cases where (dare I say it) the picture rivals the Blu-ray version? Thanks.

MrPhelps

20-04-2008, 09:05 PM

It's not Just Sony mate.

I recently bought a Pioneer Blu-ray player, which was rated as being one of the best available at the moment, but I have the same compatibility issues. When playing some discs, it coughs, splutters and eventually freezes. Sometimes, it even spits out the disc, but most times I have to eject and reload the disc in order to continue watching the movie. It's bloody frustrating!

I returned the machine to my dealer, but no fault could be found with the player. My dealer recons that the problem is due to faulty discs, but I've had no better luck with discs I've exchanged. The problem only seems to occur with the newer discs containing advanced interactive content, so I find it hard to beleive that this is purely conincidental!

I certainly won't be buying another Blu-ray player in the foreseeable future, though I might consider getting a PS3. The PS3 seems to be the only fully compatible device available. But before I part with my cash, does anyone out there have any experience of compatibility issues with the PS3?

Blu-ray didn't win the HD format war, the PS3 did! It seems ironic therefore that the PS3 may also prove to be responsible for killing off Blu-ray as a universal standalone format.

Hubbs

20-04-2008, 11:33 PM

shame the xbox 360 is a much better games machine haha i would never get a ps3 after the dreadful bling bling ps2.

Dave

21-04-2008, 08:22 PM

Hi

I have a PS3 and (so far) haven't had any problems with it. As it is connected to the internet, it can update its own firmware and as far as I am aware is compatible with all Blu-Ray discs. Of course, I could be wrong, but I've purchased and rented many BD films and things have all gone well.

Dave

Mr Franco

22-04-2008, 09:08 AM

Yep, me too. Have had no probs with my PS3. For Blu-ray, it's definitely the way to go, and in terms of visual quality, everything I've watched so far has been superior to DVD.

jbluitt

22-04-2008, 11:24 PM

Bet you haven't seen DVD upscaled on a Toshiba HD EP35 Mr Franco?

But, it's beginning to look like the PS3 is the only way to go if you gotta have High Definition.

Call me cynical, but I wonder if that was Sony's masterplan all along - even to the extent of offering up their own standalone player as a sacrificial lamb? Pity all the other manufacturers who were suckered in by this scam! :rolleyes:

Mr Franco

23-04-2008, 09:08 AM

There's no denying the transition from DVD to Blu-ray is/has been a messy one, and I thank my lucky stars I went for the PS3 option. It's a shame such a massive balls up as tainted the HD crossover and made so many customers resent the HD format, but give it time.

Dave

23-04-2008, 10:49 AM

It's one of those 'early adopter' things. Sometimes it doesn't work out for you. My parents bought a Betamax player. The machine was wonderful, the picture quality superior to VHS and it was considerably less bulky (the tapes, not the player - we eventually used the player as a footstool, or something to climb onto to reach higher shelves).

The thing I don't understand about people who don't like Hi Def is that they worry about upgrading their existing library. Don't bother. DVD quality is still very good, just make sure every new one you buy is Hi Def and move on. In my personal opinion, it's only worth it with the newer titles anyway as the stuff from the eighties and early nineties can be a bit ropey.

Dave

Mr Franco

23-04-2008, 11:11 AM

Agreed. Some of my DVDs look great on the PS3 and I've no intention of replacing them any time soon. However, if I like a new movie enough to buy it, I'm going to want to watch it on the best way possible, which is what Hi-def offers.

Tim Isaac

23-04-2008, 12:01 PM

MrPhelps, have you got the latest firmware update for your Pioneer player (I know it's new, but it might be worth checking)? We were having trouble in the office with one of the early Panasonic Blu-ray players not being able to play some new discs (particularly the latest Disney ones), but a quick trip to the Panasonic website to download the latest firmware update solved all the problems (incidentally, the picture quality for that machine is better as well after the update, so always making sure your firmware is up to date is well worth doing).

Hubbs

24-04-2008, 03:35 AM

i am upset about the upgrade thing....there are films which i have that will have bluray brothers yet with less extras..that annoys me.

the fact i will need a better tv..that really annoys me.

and the fact i will need ANOTHER new player..that really pisses me of.

and the fact that this new gen isnt needed seeing as dvd has only just really gotten into everyones homes is really a bloody piss take....i reckon they could have skipped dvd and gone straight to hi-def quite easily.everyone is in the same boat i reckon,just about got good collections,good tv,sound,player set ups and dvd is really hitting its stride with back dated movies and classic old tv stuff coming out.....best its ever been...ever in home entertainment,u can almost get everything.

yes..now u can play them on the bluray players.....but i bet u anything..as time goes by and blu becomes more the norm the players will only play bluray discs.and there's no chance they will bring the entire dvd catalog out again.

Mr.B

24-04-2008, 03:48 PM

I refuse to get a non backwards compatable Blu-Ray player.

Infact and I'm not even gonna bother getting a Blu-Ray player until distributors stop releasing new films on DVD.

I may get a high def telly, but only because they've come down in price so much. I've already seen decent sized flat screen HD ready TVs, with built in freeview, for less than £150 brand new :) .

jbluitt

04-06-2008, 12:31 PM

In stark contrast to the record-breaking Blu-ray disc sales reported in HD Monthly (June 2008), leading US market analyst NPD has revealed that the demise of HD-DVD hasn’t significantly improved Blu-ray software sales. Latest figures show that sales of Blu-ray discs have only risen by a disappointing 2% since the end of the format war.

Even more worrying for the Blu camp, is that sales of stand alone BD players have fallen to their lowest level since the introduction of the format, with only continuing healthy sales of the PS3 offering any glimmer of hope for the struggling format.

Meanwhile, sales of DVD players have actually risen by 5%, with up-scaling models spear-heading the revival. It seems that the general public are more than happy with DVD quality, and have not been impressed by the ’King’s new clothes’. So reports of the death of DVD would appear to have been very premature. Sony may yet regret dropping their DVD player range, to focus exclusively on the BD player market!

Mr.B

04-06-2008, 02:40 PM

Hubbs

04-06-2008, 02:43 PM

sweet hehe
i didnt even know sony stopped making dvd players....jesus,thats kinda stupid.

Mr Franco

04-06-2008, 03:58 PM

Found this interesting news item:

"Early reports of Blu-ray not taking the A/V market by storm are grossly exaggerated. According to all known laws of new technology adoption things are looking good for the fledgling format. Despite encroaching competition from movie downloads and the juggernaut that is DVD – somehow the Blu-ray format has sold 11 million discs."

"Surprisingly, more Blu-ray discs have been sold through May 2008 than all of last year combined."

Interesting no?

Hubbs

05-06-2008, 04:15 AM

hmmm probably just trying to make themselves feel better about it all haha
i just cant see it being THAT popular....i dont know anyone with bluray,i know that may be silly to say but really.....NO ONE.upscale dvd player..yes.

MrPhelps

05-06-2008, 10:32 AM

I have now acquired and installed the latest firmware updates for my Pioneer BD player, as recommended by Tim, but alas problems still persist with some discs.

There is a suggestion on the Play.com website that the American Justice Department may be investigating the practice of calculated early obsolescence with first generation Blu-ray players. Can anyone substantiate this? Whilst this could be good news for abused early adopters, will the format still be alive by the time a verdict is reached?

jbluitt

13-06-2008, 11:05 AM

Having been thoroughly cheesed off by the Blu-ray ‘Profile’ debacle, it has been some time since I last purchased a Blu-ray disc. My intention was to sell my Sony BDP S-500 player and maybe purchase a PS3 before giving Blu-ray another chance. But, so far, I haven’t been able to find a mug who’s willing to take the damn thing off my hands!

However, having read Jordon Brown’s enthusiastic comments concerning the picture quality of AVP2:Requium, in the June 2008 issue of DVD Monthly, I decided to purchase a copy. OK, so it’s a pretty lame movie, but I was hoping to acquire a showpiece disc which would impress my DVD loving friends, and wipe that smug “We told you so” smirk of their faces!

But having viewed the disc, I have to say that I am very disappointed. Projected onto a 7 foot wide screen, using a Sim2 HD projector, the picture quality isn’t noticeably better than my friend’s DVD copy! Again, I find myself completely under-whelmed by the whole Blu-ray affair (and unfortunately, my fiends are still smirking!).

It makes me wonder whether Jordan Brown actually viewed the disc before writing the review. Or is he just so taken in by the new technology that everything looks great to him? Of course, opinions will always be divided over the merits of a movie’s content, but reviews on technical quality should be much less subjective.

Maybe your advertisers, who seem to be desperately trying to promote Blu-ray as the successor to DVD, are having an influence on your reviews. But c’mon DVD Monthly, you also have a duty to your readers, and we look to the magazine to give us sound, honest advice.

Tyler

13-06-2008, 11:42 AM

Indeed.

I’m concerned by what appears to be a growing Blu bias to the magazine, together with a lack of depth in the DVD review section. I have a Blu-ray player, but I still buy mostly DVD’s. In cases where a title is available in both formats, I want to know whether it’s really worth shelling out extra for the Blu-ray version. I am therefore irritated to read about how great the Blu-ray discs are, whilst there is nary a comment on picture and sound quality in the DVD review section. As such, the DVD reviews are pretty useless, being merely a reiteration of the cinema reviews that have appeared earlier in the daily press and other dedicated movie magazines. I’m not suggesting that the movie recaps are invalid - they can be useful, especially with the older and lesser known films. But as a movie collector, I want to know whether the DVD is worth buying - and therefore I need to know something about the picture and sound quality, in addition to comments on the value of the extras.

I fear that the HD enthusiasts are so dazzled by the new format that they seem to be incapable of giving an unbiased review. For instance, Take the review of AVP2; Jordan Brown absolutely gushes over the picture quality of the Blu-ray release, whereas in ’rival’ magazine, Home Cinema Choice, reviewer Richard Holliss reports that “while, technically, the MPEG-4 encode is fine, it offers few benefits over the DVD”. JBluitt's findings above would seem to confirm this. Another example; Jordan Brown’s review of Sweeney Todd, in DVD Monthly, offers no insight whatsoever with regard to the DVD technical quality, whilst, in the following issue, Tim Isaac practically salivates over the image quality of the Blu-ray version. Meanwhile, the review of the DVD in HCC is gives us much more comprehensive information, correctly reporting that the disc “presents a picture that is finely detailed, and is captured with an almost high-definition quality”.

I’m not suggesting that HCC is in any way an alternative to DVD Monthly - it isn‘t. HCC’s main focus is on high performance AV equipment, and therefore it only allocates sufficient space for a handful of software reviews each month. But I have always found HCC’s disc reviews to be very thorough and reliable, and they represent a model for other publications to follow.

At the moment, I’m guessing that the majority of DVD Monthly’s readers are still mainly DVD buyers, and therefore we need the kind of accurate and in depth reviews which will reliably guide us with our DVD purchasing decisions. So, I hope that my opinions will be seen as constructive rather than overly critical, and I hope that you will take some of my comments on board. Wax lyrical over the Blu-ray releases by all means, but don‘t let your enthusiasm cloud your judgement… and please don’t forsake your loyal DVD readers.

Tim Isaac

18-06-2008, 04:39 PM

The current logic behind the way we review things is that since the early days of DVD the technical quality of the encoding has settled down so that with a few exceptions, the quality of the DVD version compared to the original isn't as massively variable as it once was. As a result we only tend to concentrate on the picture and sound if they are particularly good or particularly bad, with the presumption that the reader will understand that if we don't draw particular attention to them, it's because the transfer is perfectly satisfactory, but not remarkable in either a good or bad way.

However with Blu-ray, currently the differences between the best and the worst discs is vast, hence why we tend to pay particular attention to it in reviews. And while some have been unimpressed by Blu-ray - and even we were dubious of HD in the early days - the more discs we see, and the more quality HD equipment that's out there, the more impressed we've become, and the more we feel Blu-ray can often take the home ent. experience to the next level, as long as the software and equipment are up to the task. And if we aren't impressed by a particular disc, we do try to say so.

While I can understand you may feel there's a Blu-ray bias to the magazine, 80% of the magazine is still devoted to DVD, and considering we added 16 pages to the magazine when we brought out the HD Monthly section, there's actually no difference to the amount of DVD coverage we're offering. The result is that we can still cover more DVDs, and a greater range of types of DVD, than any other publication, while still having space for the new format, which often does need a fair amount of detail, as the world of HD can be quite confusing.

However, we will certainly take on board your comments (as we do anyone who contacts us with criticism or thoughts), and perhaps look at ways in which we can make it clearer as to whether it's worth paying the extra for the Blu-ray version over the DVD, as well as commenting more on picture and sound in DVD reviews, or making things clearer in DVD reviews.

And for my money, if you want showpiece discs for Blu-ray, I'd go with Pirates Of The Caribbean: At World's End, or 2001 - Special Edition. As while the DVDs versions of these are both good, the Blu-rays are immaculate and beautiful to look at.

Incidentally, while there's much debate over sales of Blu-ray and whether the format as a whole is doing well or not, currently the level of Blu-ray penetration isn't much different to where DVD was at this stage after its launch. So there is definitely some traction there, although I think few people are predicting the death of DVD at this stage.

(And incidentally, jbluitt, I was just wondering what lead you're using between the Blu-ray player and the projector?)

jbluitt

23-06-2008, 09:53 PM

Tim, thanks for your reply. I take your point about 80% of the magazine still being devoted to DVD, but it's not just about quantity. Surely DVD fans deserve the exactly the same standard of reviews as the HD enthusiasts? Agreed, DVD quality is much less variable than it used to be, but I don't think it's asking too much to give potential buyers an indication of picture and sound quality by giving them a score, just as you do with the Blu-rays. Don't forget, that there is still a lot of stuff being released on DVD, which is unlikely to be available on Blu-ray anytime soon.

And yes, I'm sure that there are some outstanding Blu-ray releases out there, but I'm afraid that AVP2 isn't one of them. And thanks Tyler -it's good to know that another reviewer agrees with my findings (By the way Tim, I was using the HDMI lead).

Thanks for promising to take our comments on board. DVD Monthly is already a great read, but the suggested improvements would make it stand apart from the rest of the pack, by being something more than just another good film review and news magazine.

Sfyles

05-07-2008, 01:25 PM

I’ve been keenly following the Forum discussions on the High Def debate, and I have come to the following conclusions:

1. The format war now seems to be between Blu-ray and DVD.
2. Most people seem to be more than satisfied with good old DVD.
3. The only happy Blu-ray users appear to be PS3 owners.

Personally, I am very satisfied with DVD and I have no intention of adopting Blu-ray until:

1. The format has been completely finalised, and proves itself to be more than a PS3 novelty format.
2. The price of software drops.
3. Low price multi-regional Blu-ray players become widely available.

For me, availability is just as important as quality. Multi-regional DVD players are now readily available, and so regional coding is no longer an issue with this format. This is important to me, because I like to have freedom of choice when buying my DVD’s. I acknowledge that most recent movie titles are released on Region 2, and that the release schedules are becoming ever closer to their Region 1 counterparts. Also, in most cases, there is now very little difference in price and disc content (extras etc.). However, I am a fan of classic cinema and vintage TV, and for many of these titles, the distributors obviously do not consider that the returns would be sufficient to warrant releasing separate versions in the UK or Europe. Yet despite this, they still insist on regionally coding the discs, - usually for Region 1. So multi-regional capability is essential to me.

As I understand it, regional coding is much more rigorously enforced on Blu-ray players, with little likely-hood of them ever becoming ‘hackable‘. I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that the movie distributors will show some common sense by making the more obscure titles region free. So, for the foreseeable future, Blu-ray is not for me.

By the way, I heartily agree with other contributors that a worthwhile DVD magazine should assess the discs for audio visual quality.

Tim Isaac

07-07-2008, 12:56 PM

There has been some good news on the hackable Blu-ray player front, with several sites now saying that some players are indeed hackable. However at the minute it might be worth being cautious because of BD+, which is software that can be embedded on a disc and which creates a 'virtual machine' on a player to check whether it's been tampered with or altered, and can lock the disc if it finds anything untoward. At the moment this doesn't seem to be much of an issue, but it might be worth hanging on for a which before trying to hack you player until any possible issues with this have been ironed out.

It's also true that at the minute, most Blu-ray discs are Region free, and again several sites list which ones are and which ones aren't, if you're interested.

Sfyles

08-07-2008, 10:05 PM

Thanks for the information and advanced warning Tim.

Mmm, I wasn’t aware that Region free Blu-ray discs were currently available. But the fact that the industry has something as heinous as BD+ up it‘s sleeve, I think clearly indicates it’s future intentions. Maybe they are attempting to entice the unsuspecting public into their sweet trap before slamming the door shut and turning the key!

Tim Isaac

08-07-2008, 11:03 PM

It's thought that around 2/3rds of Blu-rays released in the US at the moment don't have any region encoding on them at all.

The BD+ thing is what is said to have been the thing that caused many studios to choose Blu-ray over HD DVD, however it currently appears they aren't that fussed about its possibilities for stopping player being hacked (particularly as one of the players that's said to be hackable is a Sony player, who you'd have thought would have been particularly on top of this if they did consider it to be a major issue, seeing as it's their format and they own a studio).

Although it may change, BD+ is more about ensuring Blu-ray PC drives can't be hacked for major pirating operations rather than stopping hacked players working. The BD+ info is encoded in a different way to the rest of the info on the disc, and can only be placed on a disc if you have the correct, specially licensed equipment. As a result, if you try to make loads of copies of discs, it's probable they won't work if the original disc had BD+ on it, as you won't be able to encode that part on your disc. It's still believed that once BD PC drives become more available, you'll be able to make legally dubious 'personal back up' copies on home PCs (and some companies say they already have software so you can make file copies on your hard drive), but things like BD+ and other technologies will make it far harder for proper pirates to mass produce discs (exactly how is, of course, secret). It's currently looking unlikely BD+ will be used for stopping hacked region free Blu-ray players playing region encoded discs, but as I said above, it may be worth waiting a bit and seeing. Either way, Region free discs wouldn't be affected anyway.

And if you don't like the idea of BD+, with HD DVD, that had the potential (which was never used but the technology was there) that you'd have to be connected to the Internet in order to unlock your disc the first time you played it (similar to DRM systems on a PC), and that even after that, the rights holder would have the ability to shut down discs at any time if they deemed to be pirate copies and not let them play. This was never used and does seem a bit big brother-ish, although it's important to remember that most of these things aren't being done to deliberately screw over the consumer (although that's certainly sometimes the effect), but to try and cut down on piracy, which is probably the biggest issue the film industry feels it has at the moment, and hence why they're doing so much to try and cut down on it.

MrPhelps

09-07-2008, 11:00 PM

I think that the industry is becoming so paranoid over piracy that they are losing the plot! The pirates don't usually copy discs - they obtain their copies from other sources. And they usually aim to get their illegal copies onto the market long before the movies are officially released on disc. By the time the movies become commercially available, the pirates have already lost interest and have turned their attention to newer titles.

Maybe the industry aren't deliberately trying to screw the consumer, but by making life difficult for legal purchasers, they may actually be fuelling piracy! Frustrated consumers may be tempted to buy the pirate versions because they are likely to be playable without any restrictions.

Tim Isaac

10-07-2008, 04:15 PM

It's an oft discussed thing about whether some of the industry's counter-piracy measures actually end up having the opposite effect (for example, you have to wonder how many people watching the 'you will be put in front of a firing squad if you camcord this movie' thing in the cinemas actually get the idea of doing it from seeing that).

Blu-ray has numerous anti-piracy measure in place. Some are to try and stop the copying of finished discs, others are to try and stop mass manufacturing of counterfeit Blu-rays, so it's not just BD+. Nowadays, even HD TVs and leads have certain anti-piracy measures built in (in fact, a screen can't use the HD-Ready logo unless it uses the anti-piracy HDCP protocol, which is designed to protect information as it travels through cables).

With DVD, the distributors were caught unawares by how quickly cheap replication became available and also how easy it became for literally anyone with a little tech knowledge to make copies of anything they fancied. As a result, they're being a lot more strict with Blu-ray, with numerous different systems in place to hopefully prevent piracy of copyrighted materials. The real test will come in whether they end up limiting legitimate uses for Blu-ray. The industry don't think they will, but until Blu-ray burners become more widely available, it's difficult to tell.

Hubbs

11-07-2008, 01:25 AM

the fact that disc's come out so early in the US and ages later for here,that makes people wanna get pirates.ditto the cinema half the time.

Sfyles

11-07-2008, 03:02 PM

the fact that disc's come out so early in the US and ages later for here,that makes people wanna get pirates.ditto the cinema half the time.

Good point! I know some people who buy pirate discs so that they can beat their friends to seeing the movie. Then they buy the official release when it becomes available, because the quality of the pirate copy is so poor! Crazy or what? But then the copyright owners can't really class this as lost revenue can they?

Mr Franco

11-07-2008, 04:54 PM

jason007

11-07-2008, 09:57 PM

or just wait like good little people like me do :)

Sfyles

17-07-2008, 11:10 AM

I don't think the small amount of time between the UK and US release date of DVDs causes any kind of serious piracy problem. If the person wants the DVD that much, surely they can just buy the region 1??
I agree. But unfortunately, the home entertainment industry still considers the importation of movies to be a form of piracy. Of course, they have no legal powers to prevent this, so they try to make life as difficult as possible for people who attempt it.

A few years ago, FACT clamped down heavily on importers who sold Region 1 DVD’s over the counter. They had no legal justification to do this on the basis of piracy, so instead they claimed that legitimate retailers were ’possibly violating censorship regulations’, and considered this to be sufficient justification for confiscating stocks of Region 1 discs! This was a very grey area, but the importers (who were mostly small independent retailers) didn’t have the financial muscle to legally challenge the might of the movie industry! But you have to ask yourself, what on earth were FACT doing getting involved in censorship issues? What does censorship have to do with copyright theft?

I don’t believe that home copying is a significant problem. The copy protection mechanism already present on DVD is sufficient to deter most users. Indeed, I don’t know anybody who actually practices this. And as Phelps has already pointed out, the ‘serious’ pirates don’t copy domestic discs - they use other sources.

I believe that the fiendish copy protection mechanisms which the industry have developed for Blu-ray has very little to do with piracy, but in reality is more about controlling distribution. They cannot use the law to stop people from legitimately importing movies, so they have to resort to 'anti-piracy measures' to deter honest consumers! Perhaps at the moment, Blu-ray disc sales are not sufficiently large enough for most movie companies to bother with distribution controls. But if/when Blu-ray sales approach the level attained by DVD, I’m convinced that the door will be firmly closed shut.

Tim Isaac

17-07-2008, 02:34 PM

It's not really that much of a grey area, as selling Region 1 imports over the counter in the UK is illegal in virtually all circumstances. The 1984 Video Recordings Act makes it an offense for a UK shop to supply any recording that hasn't been certified by the BBFC, which includes foreign DVDs, even if a UK version has been certified. There are also trade restrictions limiting what can be imported from outside the EU for sale in the UK (and that goes for most goods), which again means selling R1s over the counter is illegal.

Technically no UK company can sell you a R1 DVD that they've imported and then sold to you, however you can personally import a US DVD yourself, and so in the eyes of the law, any UK firm you buy an American disc from can only act as an importation service, not as a 'shop'. Legally that's the only way you can get US discs, and isn't really to do with the might of the movie studios, but the way the law works, and the same would be true with most things, from perfume to jeans.

Not personally sure about FACT's involvement in all this, but I do know there was a problem a couple of years ago with some shops selling Region 1 copies that were actually pirate copies. They used the R1 label on shelves to try and deceive people into believing they were buying legitimate goods.

There's also more to Regions than just the movie studio twirling their moustaches and laughing evilly. A lot of small scale (and sometimes big scale) film production can only take place by selling and pre-selling the distribution rights to different territories to different companies. Therefore a movie released by one company in the US might be released by a different company in the UK, so if you buy the Region 1 disc, the UK distributor gets nothing. In these cases, staged releases across the globe are either contractual or necessary. For independent movies, a vast amount of their budgets come from pre-selling the rights to different territories – they wouldn't get made without it – and this can go for films right up to the size of Titanic, where Paramount and Fox split the costs, with the former getting US and Canadian rights and Fox getting the rest of the world. A certain amount of control over territories therefore actually helps ensure diversity in the marketplace, and many smaller UK firms would go belly up if US discs flooded the market. It's also important to remember that you don't pay VAT on discs you import (as long as the value is fairly low), which is one of the reasons they're often cheaper, but you would do if they were available in shops.

With our Region 1 section, we never had one single complaint from one of the major movie studios about reviewing US versions of titles. In fact, several times movie studios used quotes about the film from our Region 1 reviews on the Region 2 box covers. I can really genuinely say that most people in major movie studios really don't care if you buy your disc from the UK or the US, as ultimately the money all feeds back to the same place. For smaller companies however it's a major bugbear, as often they can't help but release titles later in the UK than in the US, and every R1 copy is lost revenue for them. It is only them we've ever had complaints from, because it really can affect their business. And whenever there is talk about region control, it's them who fight for it, rather than the studios. (It's worth noting HD DVD had no regions at all, largely because the studios backing the format didn't care, and the smaller companies didn't get their way)

And whether it's small or large companies, all of them are genuinely concerned about piracy. While their figures way be inflated and they may panic too much, if piracy became endemic in the way it has in some Asian countries, it could absolutely devastate the movie industry. The anti-piracy measures are just that, to try and stop piracy, and whether you believe it or not, making piracy more difficult is ultimately in all our interests.

Hubbs

18-07-2008, 05:11 AM

quite simply i think all dvds should be available to all in all countries,the region codes are very childish and annoying.
either that or simply make all dvd releases the same so people wouldnt need to get other country versions.
how many times has the UK lost out on dvd extras compared to the US,AUS and Asia.

i have numerous dvds that still arent available in the UK and US versions that are much better than the UK counterpart version...thats why i buy R1 or even Asian/AUS versions.

stop ripping of the public who make u the money and the public will stop the piracy.

this also goes for cin release dates too.

Sfyles

18-07-2008, 11:09 PM

Thanks for the detailed explanation Tim.

I can recall that one of the legitimate companies hounded by FACT was Loaded247.com. At the time, they were trading under the name of Future Entertainment (or possibly LaserDisc House). But to my knowledge, they have only ever dealt with genuine Region 1 discs, not pirate copies.

I appreciate that there may be complications for the smaller distributors, but surely it cannot be beyond the big players to simplify their distribution and rationalise their releases worldwide? I agree with Hubbs that the version you get should be the same, regardless of the country where you buy the disc. I know that there are a few notable exceptions, but in the main it does seem, where there is a difference, that the UK is usually the poor relation - just look at the R2 release of Spiderwick for a recent example.

Imports have been around since the early days LP records, and in today's global market they are a now fact of life. So it's about time that the movie distributors adjusted accordingly. Are there any current figures to support the idea that imports are having any significant impact on domestic sales?

I'm not denying that piracy harms sales. But I honestly don't think that home copying or importing are major contributors. A far bigger problem is the illegal downloading of movies from the internet. And in many cases, new titles are available long before they appear on R1 or R2. So I'm just not convinced that copy protection and region controls on discs are effective ways of tackling the real problem.

jbluitt

17-09-2008, 09:12 PM

Toshiba’s reluctance to adopt the Blu-ray format may be a source of annoyance to DVD Monthly’s scribes (Comfort Zone, DVD Monthly Oct 2008), but having seen a demo of the new Toshiba XD-E500 DVD player, during a recent trip to the USA, I think you will have to admit that they have a point. To say that the performance is impressive is an understatement; it’s nothing less than a revelation! The machine seems to somehow unlock the image quality that is already inherent in standard DVD recordings.

No doubt, the machine will get a frosty reception from committed Blu-ray fans and from the home entertainment industry (who will have concerns about the loss of potential revenue from re-selling their back catalogue titles on Blu-ray disc!). But for the rest of us, there is a simple truth: If you can live without Blu-ray’s gimmicky special features (and let‘s face it, the profiling issues have meant that many early adopters of the format have had to tolerate this), and if you are not a dedicated PS3 game player, then you don’t need Blu-ray. The performance that the XD-E500 extracts from standard DVD is that good! Serious audiophiles will point out that Blu-ray is capable of delivering better quality sound, but this is not likely to be a deciding factor. This is borne out by the popularity of mp3 audio, and the failure of the high resolution audio formats to make an impact on the music market. And existing DVD soundtracks are already considered more than good enough by most people.

The Toshiba XD-E500 is being sold in the USA for only $149.99. This will probably equate to around £150.00 when the machine is officially launched in Britain. But this is not really a great deal of money to pay for a top quality player. And just think of all the cash you’ll be saving on Blu-ray discs!

So don’t necessarily believe what you may read in the press, and don’t take my word for it - give the player an audition and decide for yourself.

MrPhelps

23-09-2008, 11:32 PM

Mm… Can’t wait to get a sneak peak at the Toshiba XS-E500. And there’s more worrying news for the Blu camp

Whilst DVD Monthly continues to be optimistic about the growth of Blu-ray disc sales, reports elsewhere reveal that the home entertainment industry is now expressing serious doubts about the format’s ability to take the mainstream. And believe it or not, the PS3 is to blame! Who says so? - Warner Home Video. WHV’s Vice President of International Marketing, Monica Juniel, speaking at a recent press conference, said that their market analysis had revealed that PS3 owners buy far fewer Blu-ray movies than owners of dedicated Blu-ray players. Figures for the past year show that movie take-up by PS3 owners averages at just 3 discs per year. This is not altogether surprising given the high price of the discs, and the fact that movies have to compete with games for the PS3 owner’s disposable cash. The problem is that, given the vast predominance of PS3 households over those with stand alone players, movie sales are falling well below market forecasts - which were based simply on the penetration of Blu-ray capable devices into homes.

Warner’s consumer research has also revealed that most people are completely happy with DVD and are indifferent to BD. The perceived difference in performance is judged by many as insufficient to justify the high cost of hardware and software (and Toshiba have now significantly closed that gap).

Of course, this news will not come as a great surprise to some DVD Monthly readers, as this situation has already been predicted by contributors to the forum.

Hubbs

24-09-2008, 01:37 PM

'Warner’s consumer research has also revealed that most people are completely happy with DVD and are indifferent to BD. The perceived difference in performance is judged by many as insufficient to justify the high cost of hardware and software (and Toshiba have now significantly closed that gap).'

exactly.
I also read in the lastest monthly about the extras on BR, its all very gimmicky and basically no different to the internet, download this, upload that, things added in the future. Its all rubbish and will probably cost.
The stupidest thing was the live commentry with the chance to ask questions haha as if!! with the other million people who are doing the same thing hahaha please, never work. The extras thing has been covered perfectly by DVD and there is nothing more to do in that field simply....deleted scenes, commentry, few features and maybe a blooper reel, thats all you need, more the better of course.The rest is usually crap that you never check out more than once.

Tyler

25-09-2008, 02:09 PM

Warner's decision to drop HD-DVD sounded the death knell for that format. The fact that the company is now voicing concerns over Blu-ray's future as a mainstream format, will send shockwaves rippling throughout the Blu-ray community.

The public apathy is hardly surprising. First we had to endure the fiasco that was the HD format war. Then we had the ‘profiling’ debacle which left many early adopters feeling that they had been shat upon by the hardware manufacturers. And then we have the marketing hype, boasting that Blu-ray is 5 times better than DVD! Whilst this may be technically true, the perceivable difference in picture quality is nowhere near as great - the law of diminishing returns applies here. Little wonder that the general public feels that they are being conned into buying into another format.

DVD picture and sound quality are more than good enough for most people, and the format represents a good balance of quality, convenience, features and price. Blu-ray simply does not provide a big enough gain in any of these important areas to entice Joe Public to change.

Hubbs

26-09-2008, 03:37 AM

Well said :)

jbluitt

29-09-2008, 10:41 PM

I also read in the lastest monthly about the extras on BR, its all very gimmicky and basically no different to the internet, download this, upload that, things added in the future. Its all rubbish and will probably cost.
The stupidest thing was the live commentry with the chance to ask questions haha as if!! with the other million people who are doing the same thing hahaha please, never work. The extras thing has been covered perfectly by DVD and there is nothing more to do in that field simply....deleted scenes, commentry, few features and maybe a blooper reel, thats all you need, more the better of course.The rest is usually crap that you never check out more than once.

I have to agree with Hubbs. A friend of mine has been getting his wee-wee in a froth over the BD-Live feature 'Put Yourself in the Movie', and he couldn't wait to demonstrate it to me. It sounds exciting, but it is actually very crudely implemented, and the results are risible. It was as much as I could do to stifle my laughter, as I did not want to ridicule and offend my friend! Apparently, a demo of this feature elicited a similar response from the audience at a recent press conference for the BDA, where Sony’s representative, Simon McDowell, presented it as ‘a whole new way of engaging with movies, offered by the BD-Live functionality’. Just what is it about Blu-ray that turns normally sane people into gibbering idiots?

Whilst on the subject of BD special features, I have a question for the DVD Monthly review team. In the ‘HD Reviews’ section of the magazine, you state that all Blu-rays are reviewed using a Sharp BDHP20SAquos Blu-ray Player. To my knowledge, this player is only compliant with Profile 1.0 - So how is it possible for reviewers to assess features such as PIP and BD-Live?

Tim Isaac

30-09-2008, 11:31 AM

The Sharp BDHP20S Aquos Blu-ray Player is the official Blu-ray player for reviews in the mag. All the films are therefore watched using the same equipment so we can compare and contrast the quality of the 1080p transfer, without the issue being clouded by the quality of different equipment being used by different reviewers. However, we also have access to Profile 2.0 compliant equipment, such as the Playstation 3, so we can test PiP and BD-Live and other advanced functionality.

And you're right, the 'Put Yourself In The Picture' function is pretty daft, but it does at least demonstrate the sort of thing that might be possible, if people can put their heads together and come up with some good ideas.

Hubbs

30-09-2008, 01:32 PM

Can someone please explain the 'profile' thing that is part of BR. I dont understand it atall yet I do understand that if you get a player with the wrong profile you are screwed lol
which really puts me off and frankly makes the whole thing even more ridiculous.
Im guessing as films get more sharper or clearer there could be a profile 3?? so is it possible that BR players just keep going out of date? or superseeded.

Tim Isaac

30-09-2008, 02:22 PM

As things stand, the first players on the market were Profile 1.0, which means they can't access some of the advanced special features such as Picture In Picture featurettes or anything that involves being connected to the internet.

This Profile only exists because Blu-ray was rushed to market to compete with HD DVD. The original Profile 1.0 was meant to be what we now call Profile 1.1, but for various technical reasons, technology firms were given a 'grace period' where they could release players that didn't have things such as secondary audio and video decoders that are needed for some of the more advanced features Blu-ray is capable of. This is one of the main reasons why many early adopters feel gipped, as they were convinced to buy the equipment, only to find out 18 months later that it was already out of date.

However it's important to remember that the Profiles are all to do with advanced features and not the sharpness and clarity of the HD picture the player produces. The quality of the HD picture is down to the processing abilities of player itself and what it's hooked up to, irrespective of the Profile (e.g, a really good Profile 1.0 player might be able to output better looking HD picture quality on the actual film than a rubbish Profile 2.0 player, but the latter would give you access to any Picture In Picture and Internet enabled features on the disc, which the Profile 1.0 player couldn't handle).

Since last November, all new Blu-ray players released have to be either Profile 1.1 or Profile 2.0 compliant. However it's not really correct to look at this as an evolution of the format, as if all had gone to plan, there would only have been these two Blu-ray profiles from day one - one which had advanced features but no Internet functionality, and one which has both.

If you click on this link (http://www.dvd-monthly.co.uk/2008/08/08/blu-ray-to-z-n-to-r/) and scroll down the page, it explains exactly what the differences between the profiles are.

As things stand, these two profiles are the 'final' standards for Blu-ray, and for the forseeable future there will remain both Profile 1.1 and 2.0 players on the market, at different price points, depending on whether you want access to Internet enabled features or not.

And yes, there is a Profile 3.0, but that's not used at the moment and is only for possible implementation as a separate music format (In the same was that DVD-Audio is technically a separate profile for DVD).

So Profile-wise, other than a possible music format, we should have reached the end point now. This means that as far as we know, as long as you keep your firmware up to date, if you buy a Blu-ray player that was released since last November, it shouldn't be superceded by yet another Profile.

Hubbs

01-10-2008, 02:47 AM

hmmm you say shouldnt though hehe im not totally convinced ;)
im not planning to buy a BR player but im just curious how this works, I still think its kinda stupid.

jbluitt

02-10-2008, 01:40 AM

I'm certainly not convinced! Sony have just released a brand new Blu-ray player onto the market (the BDP-S350) which is... wait for it... only Profile 1.1 compliant! Sony say that they will be releasing a firmware update for the machine soon. But is all this crap really necessary?

Hubbs

02-10-2008, 03:35 AM

Hmmm yes thats exactly what I cant get my head around, they release a certain profile BR player then say there will be updates for it!!! but why should we have to mess with updates? its garbage, these are DVD players not PC's, I just wanna buy a player, play films and thats it...not have to worry about the films not playing on the player due to certain profiles. Its just like having an old Amiga or Atari ST again LOL

This is a step backwards if you ask me and it wont get any better cos im sure different studios are releasing films in different profiles and now its started like this it probably wont be sorted cos they gotta re-release films all over again:(:confused:
its just a complete mess.

Plus I would also like to point out that BR is only any good if you buy new films made within the last....say 10 yrs, the newer the better of course. Old films from the 80's and before are no different to their DVD counterparts...almost.
In most cases the high def pic actually makes the pic worse cos you can see all the 'joins' and the way they did the effects, the pic can be pixelated, the pic varies in certain sections of the film from good to poor (Predator) and simply it just doesnt look right cos the film wasnt made for that type of high def quality.

This is why im not changing, my collection is complete and is mostly films from the 80's and early 90's, most of them wont really improve with BR quality. The pic may be smoother and have better colours with SOME films but its nowhere near as good as a brand new film would be like Spiderman 3, films like Aliens, Blues Brothers, Predator, Robocop etc... just wont get that crystal clear look....it just cant happen so there's no reason for me to change as my current DVD SE's are the best I can get, and probably better than a BR pic.

I dont buy new films anyway hehe
Hellboy 2 is the only film I wish to buy recently.

Tim Isaac

02-10-2008, 02:01 PM

Just to clarify, even if there are some special features on a Blu-ray disc that can only be accessed by a Profile 2.0 player, it doesn't mean necessarily mean that the film itself won't play on a Profile 1.1 or 1.0 player. I have a 1.0 player at home, and it's played every Blu-ray disc I've put in it. I just can't use it to access Picture In Picture or Internet enabled features.

And as I said above, the plan was always to have both Profile 1.1 and Profile 2.0 players on the market, with the former cheaper than the latter, depending on whether you want the Internet enabled features or not.

Hubbs

03-10-2008, 01:21 PM

Sfyles

04-10-2008, 11:10 PM

Not trying to just argue for the sake of it here;)
but as we gotta spend money on new players and new versions of our films again....why cant we just have a player that can access everything? whats the point of a player (like yrs) that doesnt do everything! sure some features may be lame or not worth it but at the end of the day if I buy a SE edition of a film that has x amount of extras....I want all the extras mentioned on the back, thats what I expect from DVD and thats certainly what I expect from a brand new gen of disc.

Tim, I can appreciate what Hubbs is getting at. People who are PC savvy will be familiar with the need for carefully checking the program requirements on the back of the box before purchasing software. But the average purchaser of electrical home appliances such as TVs, Videos and DVDs are not; They are expect to be able to enjoy all of the features that are listed, without any restrictions. Most of them are not even aware of the different DVD regions, but then they don't need to be - because all of the titles they buy over the counter in the UK will be region 2 and therefore totally compatible with their player.

If we DVD Monthly readers are having difficulty getting our heads around this profile nonsense, then you can imagine how confusing it is to the general public.

Hubbs

11-10-2008, 01:30 PM

Hehe ok more worries n complaints ;)
In the lastest issue you have a list of all BR discs with info on which format is best for the film.
Now whilst many are best for BR there are also many that are aparantley best for DVD...
this leads me to think..again..what is the point of BR?
if quite afew films are better on DVD then why upgrade?
even if the extras are the only better option...I would still have a film loaded with extras than a film with maybe only slightly better pic n sound quality.
This all harks back to the days of VHS when you would have a regular VHS copy of a film, then you could get the widescreen version with slightly better pic n sound quality (remember the cases with the gold cover surround? always boasted THXsound upgrades).

Im thinkin really that BR is only for certain movies that really need the pic n sound boost eg...Star Wars, Gladiator, Alien etc...
the epic classics..
most dont need it.

Finally....is this theory possible?
when DVD started to come out the quality was very good, then DVD was churned out bigtime and the quality started to fade with many titles as the format became very common....mainly the older film titles or smaller film titles. You would get what seems like basic VHS transferred to DVD with no work done to upgrade the quality.
As BR becomes bigger with more films being churned out....is this possible? will only the real BR quality come through on the big releases?
eg..Beetlejuice just came out on BR...is that any good?
its an old film with no big fanfare on release and its still a basic vanilla disc.